Reading through Jester’s posts about the recent New Eden Open got me thinking about competitive tournament play in Eve and in other games. I can think of a few broad types of ranked play in gaming. The DOTA/LoL approach, with lots of characters and a set map with set objectives. The FPS approach with identical classes and rankings based on K/D rates and what have you. The RTS approach of winning matches against other players. The WoT approach where you have either informal rankings based on metrics or Clan tournaments. The ad-hoc Eve tournaments with weird buy-ins, metagamey team composition mechanics and various win conditions that have varied. The WoW arena approach. All of these have strengths and drawbacks that are far too numerous to go into at any length. The point is there are a lot of ways to skin this cat.
Coming from a rather uninvolved standpoint, I want to come up with a new way to do tourneys in Eve!
In my experience the biggest problem to most competitive gaming formats is either a lack of depth, or so much depth that the mental barrier to entry is too high for most people to get into a game. Based on comments, the latter seems to be a big “problem” in Eve. Add to that the cost of participation and you have a rather gnarly set of hurdles to overcome. So here is a half-baked idea:
Take the arena system of WoW, in broad strokes. You have XvX teams enter an arena, fight for a certain amount of time, and at the end the one with the most people left standing wins. This is a pretty simple system. Get rid of the stupid arena mechanics. Instead the arena is a grid, Eve-style, say 300km in diameter. That is plenty of room to move around. Both teams start at 200km from the center. No podding. If you go boom, your pod gets put in a station in system, and you go into spectator mode. Go.
Next we need to consider ships. The simplest way is to tier it. Tiers could be based on tech level and hull size. The Tier 1 Cruiser bracket, for example, would allow each team their choice of one Tier 1 cruiser or smaller hull for each player. Fittings would be capped at Tech 2, the impact of implants should probably be negated. Just hulls and mods and rigs. This would create 5 hull tiers, and two tiers for each hull size except cruisers. If we discount tech 3 hulls, there are 10 tiers. Maybe have an anything-goes tier for people who want faction fits, implant sets and all that silly stuff.
To make sure you can fit before fights, put an option in the fitting interface where you can set your tier and that wipes the affect of implants. Now everyone has a pretty even playing field, and most players would have options that are not too expensive. A T2-fit cruiser or frigate is a pretty cheap investment, generally speaking. Those would want to go all spendy could fly in the Tech 2 tiers.
There may need to be some special rules in the fight system. Perhaps a concord-like entity that really bites down on non-sanctioned combat, to allow safe travel in the fight system. Perhaps there need to be a few of these systems set up in order to ease strain. Maybe not.
Then you get to the bracketing. Enter seasons. Let’s go with 3 month seasons, as a number out of a hat. Each week you get X matches (5? 10?) that are ranked. Each team gets a ranking as the season progresses, and then at the end you have playoffs at each tier that leads to the finals. If you have 10 matches per week with a 12 week seasons, that is 120 matches. Not a small number for determining ranks. The post season lasts for a month or two. You get two full seasons a year.
For added fun, let’s make all this happen on the live server. During playoffs, the playoff system gates get locked down so only the competitors can come and go. Once you lose, you have to leave. Put the feed on in Captain’s Quarters. Or at least a link to the Twitch page or something. I’d say let players bet isk on the matches, but that might be difficult, legally and logistically.
Outside the sanctioned matches, put exhibition arenas around the cluster. Little pockets of space where player can queue up to fight each other using the same rules, but without rankings.
This whole thing is mostly a thought experiment. Eve’s competitive PvP, as it stands now, is for a select few, and will hold back Eve’s esports presence because there is not much a normal player can do to join in.
The whole point of this idea is to create a space for competitive small gang pvp with real leader boards and rankings. The current tournament system in Eve features a crazy buy-in process, expensive ships, and convoluted rules. I want to see people flying normal ships with normal modules where tactics, team composition and flying are the main factors that influence the fights. Not weird metagaming, practicing in wormholes, and PLEX buy-ins for auction spots.
The reason there are only a handful of Formula One teams isn’t because people don’t want to drive fast cars. There are only a handful of F1 teams because the barrier for entry is so high. But there are race tracks and racing leagues all over the world where for a small outlay you can throw a car around the trtack and compete against others. If CCP wants players to really get into eSports in Eve, they need players to be able to participate.
A more accessible system could provide this entry point, giving new or space-poor players a simple entry point while allowing a venue for those who wish to field more expensive and skill-intensive ships and fits. Instead of dumping a low-SP alt in RvB, players could dump a new character into the ranked system, and realize that this season they can learn to fly frigates, but next season they will be able to fly cruisers. And then they can move into tech two hulls. If you went with one race’s ships, hitting all 10 tiers would probably take you a good two years to fully fit competitive ships. That would also help keep players in the game, and help CCP’s bottom line. When everyone gets to fight in space, everyone in the real world wins.
Showing posts with label PvP. Show all posts
Showing posts with label PvP. Show all posts
Monday, March 24, 2014
Monday, April 22, 2013
Reasonable Foreseeability
In the wake of Burn Jita 2, I have a few thoughts:
I'm fairly sure the answers to the first two are something like "many" and "through dumb luck". But the anser to the third is not clear. One very angry pilot posted the following in part of a draft letter he plans to send CCP, and posted on the forums:
"Lack of capacity in Jita causing a large amount of ships (likely on autopilot) containing vast wealth to be stuck on the gates around the system."
In the larger context of the letter, he was implying CCP's lack of ability to meet player demand for access to a system was responsible for a large number of the deaths in Burn Jita 2. This made me stop and think for few minutes. What we have here is a player trying to apply a real world legal principle to Eve online, a game made on a pile of interconnected rules that are constantly gamed for profit and entertainment. A lot like the real rules in real legal settings.
The principle in question is that of "reasonable foreseeability". For those unfamiliar, this rule is often applied in cases where negligence of one party results in some sort of harm to another. For example, if I own a store, and I have flooded floor, and fail to notify customers of this, and then a customer injures themselves by slipping and falling on the floor, I am in some part culpable for the injury, as it was reasonably foreseeable that someone could have an accident, and I failed to warn the customer. As long as a situation exists where the first party could reasonably anticipate harm based on action or inaction, that party has a duty to inform or reduce the risk.
So did CCP fail to reasonably foresee many of the ships losses in Jita? On one side, you can argue that any pilot using autopilot to travel is removing blame from CCP. By letting the computer just move you around and failing to pay attention, you are allowing other players to do what they will in your absence. You could also argue that no hauler, on autopilot or manual pilot, had a chance to make it through the gate camp because of the mechanics of hauler alignment, the power of alpha strikes, and the normal "after the fact" nature of CONCORD response.
On the other side, you can argue that in normal game functioning, in the vast majority of cases, autopilot will allow you to jump through just about any gate in the game. System traffic causing gate locks is very rare, and not to be expected by a reasonable player. CCP knew Burn Jita 2 would happen, so failing to reinforce the nodes for Jita and surrounding systems was negligent, and broke reasonable player expectations. Further, if CCP knew about BJ2, and given the warning issued last year for Burn Jita, and this year for Luminaire, if no warning was issued this year, CCP ignored a situation they knew would occur. They failed to act on a reasonably foreseeable harm to many players.
Eve is not a real legal system, nor is it governed by real legal principles. Most of the rules in Eve relating to player aggression fall far short of the legal principles in many real world legal frameworks. But we also know many people expect some sore of justice in Eve, and many players are angered when they perceive a loss to be unfair, out of their control, or if a loss can be perceived as CCP's fault.
I don't really blame CCP. If you can't be bothered to keep up with the metagame in Eve, especially when it relates to large events that are public knowledge, then I have little sympathy. Eve is known for these sorts of events. But I'm an Eve blog writer and reader, so I'm in a minority of the player base that chooses to get into the metagame.
What do you think? Did CCP fail in their duty to act on a reasonably forseeable situation? Should all the ganked haulers HTFU? I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts.
- Who plays Eve, but ignores the metagame?
- How do haulers, one of the most at-risk groups to events like BJ2, manage to ignore it?
- What responsibility does CCP have to players in regards to known events that CCP is not actually causing?
"Lack of capacity in Jita causing a large amount of ships (likely on autopilot) containing vast wealth to be stuck on the gates around the system."
In the larger context of the letter, he was implying CCP's lack of ability to meet player demand for access to a system was responsible for a large number of the deaths in Burn Jita 2. This made me stop and think for few minutes. What we have here is a player trying to apply a real world legal principle to Eve online, a game made on a pile of interconnected rules that are constantly gamed for profit and entertainment. A lot like the real rules in real legal settings.
The principle in question is that of "reasonable foreseeability". For those unfamiliar, this rule is often applied in cases where negligence of one party results in some sort of harm to another. For example, if I own a store, and I have flooded floor, and fail to notify customers of this, and then a customer injures themselves by slipping and falling on the floor, I am in some part culpable for the injury, as it was reasonably foreseeable that someone could have an accident, and I failed to warn the customer. As long as a situation exists where the first party could reasonably anticipate harm based on action or inaction, that party has a duty to inform or reduce the risk.
So did CCP fail to reasonably foresee many of the ships losses in Jita? On one side, you can argue that any pilot using autopilot to travel is removing blame from CCP. By letting the computer just move you around and failing to pay attention, you are allowing other players to do what they will in your absence. You could also argue that no hauler, on autopilot or manual pilot, had a chance to make it through the gate camp because of the mechanics of hauler alignment, the power of alpha strikes, and the normal "after the fact" nature of CONCORD response.
On the other side, you can argue that in normal game functioning, in the vast majority of cases, autopilot will allow you to jump through just about any gate in the game. System traffic causing gate locks is very rare, and not to be expected by a reasonable player. CCP knew Burn Jita 2 would happen, so failing to reinforce the nodes for Jita and surrounding systems was negligent, and broke reasonable player expectations. Further, if CCP knew about BJ2, and given the warning issued last year for Burn Jita, and this year for Luminaire, if no warning was issued this year, CCP ignored a situation they knew would occur. They failed to act on a reasonably foreseeable harm to many players.
Eve is not a real legal system, nor is it governed by real legal principles. Most of the rules in Eve relating to player aggression fall far short of the legal principles in many real world legal frameworks. But we also know many people expect some sore of justice in Eve, and many players are angered when they perceive a loss to be unfair, out of their control, or if a loss can be perceived as CCP's fault.
I don't really blame CCP. If you can't be bothered to keep up with the metagame in Eve, especially when it relates to large events that are public knowledge, then I have little sympathy. Eve is known for these sorts of events. But I'm an Eve blog writer and reader, so I'm in a minority of the player base that chooses to get into the metagame.
What do you think? Did CCP fail in their duty to act on a reasonably forseeable situation? Should all the ganked haulers HTFU? I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts.
Tuesday, April 16, 2013
Making NPCs Matter - Blog Banter 46
"EVE Online is a unique piece of science fiction that is ‘participatory’." - CCP Seagull, December 2012
EVE Online is heading into its Second Decade with renewed vigour and a new development strategy. At the CSM Summit in December, Executive Producer CCP Unifex and Development Director CCP Seagull explained how future development and expansions will be broader in scope than recent "collections of features" stating that CCP "want to create something more inspirational, that players aspire to play."
With the return of Live Events such as the Battle for Caldari Prime, clearly the prime fiction of EVE is back in favour as part of this new thematic approach to expansions. However, EVE's story is very much a tale of two playstyles, with an entirely player-driven narrative unfolding daily in parallel to the reinvigorated backstory. Often, they do not mix well. How can these two disparate elements be united or at least comfortably co-exist in a single sandbox universe?
The biggest disconnect between the lore of Eve and the Reality of Eve, in my mind, is that nothing players do has much impact of the NPCs of New Eden, aside from making an endless supply of red crosses explode. The following is a rather fanciful reimagining of how corporations, both player and NPC, could give players tools to influence the continuing narrative of Eve. What if Eve stock actually had a point besides corporate takeovers? Here are some thoughts:
Player owned stock is, generally speaking, a joke. You use it to hold control of your corp, and you might use it to provide voting rights for corp members and leadership. Although every entity in the game is a “corporation”, there is no real stock market in which players can act., and there are very limited reasons to ever do anything with corporation stock after making a new corp and giving yourself all 1000 sahres to prevent some methods of hostile takeover. Let’s change that!
First change: All military NPC factions become actual militaries instead of corps.
So the FDU, the Amarr Navy, and other such orgs get turned into actual, honest to goodness militaries without a corp ticker. They remain sub-factions of the main Empires, but get removed from the big basket of “corps”. I’m not sure how to handle Pirate corps/factions. I think there could be some interesting room to play with sec status here.
Second change: All NPC corps get a chunk of stock allocated to the public.
Probably less than 50%, and it goes into a stock market much like the normal market. If you buy stock, you get a dividend per share each quarter. You would tie quarterly dividends to a combination of mission completion and market activity in stations owned by each corp. This dividend could be based from the previous quarter. If the combined metric goes up, money gets paid out to shareholders. If the combined metric goes down or is static, nothing gets paid out. Players would determine the relative value of the stock, and market players could find opportunities to game the system, much like the real world.
Third change: Station control via NPC corps becomes dynamic.
NPC corps want to control more, just like players. Industry corps want to spread refining and manufacturing. Security corps want to increase their area of control. Shipping corps want to open up more hubs. Missions completed for each corp allow for a sort of faction-warfare style tug of war for control of station anchor points. This should be a slow, but noticeable process that players influence. It also gives players a say in shaping the universe. If your mining corp really wants to push for a station in their home system, mission for the NPC corp that wants to open up shop there. Hate those stupid carebears? Keeping killing them while they try to complete their missions, and force the station to close. This could also lead to more diversity in missions, allowing mining and targeted security missions to focus on goals besides just isk. Perhaps your mining mission becomes “Refine x ore in station Y”, with a larger LP reward instead of straight isk, and contributes to future station expansion, or flipping control of stations. Pirate players could take PvP-related missions to kill other players while engaged in mission pockets.
Fourth change: Make more diverse rewards for supporting NPC corps.
Let players choose between isk and preferred stock that allows them to vote for target systems. Perhaps preferred stock has better payouts each quarter. Allow turn ins for LP that increase your standing with NPC corps and give special perks, such as reserved station slots for a period of time, or better refining for your corp for a time.
Fifth Change: Player corps can be public, or private.
Public companies have voting and non-voting stock. Public corps would be traded on the open stock market. The directors could choose to pay or not pay dividends. Alliances could work the same way. This would open up a lot of investment options, and some political ones. It would make corporations actually corporations, and not just the de-facto guild or clan structures they are now. Alliances may demand a certain number of shares, or entice members with shares in the alliance to provide some method of input and leadership.
Sixth Change: Let players and player corps align with NPC factions and corps in a meaningful way beyond the current dynamics of FW.
There could be a lot of fun emergent roleplaying mechanics here, especially if NPC corps become dynamic. More militaristic corporations would provide a sort of FW-lite, allowing open conflict between players. Some corporations would be non-profit, non-violent affairs, like the Universities and rookie corps. In this way, players would be able to actively take part in the corporate machinations implied in the lore of Eve, in corps that are actually a part of the lore.
Conclusion
The point of all this is to let players use the corporation framework to interact with NPCs in a dynamic way. It would allow roleplayers, or just savvy manipulators, the tools to change the political map of Eve’s story. You might have to fight to keep your stations going. The NPC lore of Eve would become something players actively engage, influence, and react to. The disconnect between static Empire space and the ever-changing and developing world of null sec, FW, and WH space would be less stark.
Obviously there would need to be ways for CCP to keep their thumb on the scale and make sure a large bloc doesn’t just wipe out Empire. There would need to be limits to how far NPC corps could go, either in gaining or losing space to other NPC corps. But I have a feeling that enough players would contest each other out of desires for isk and fame that the system would find some sort of fluid equilibrium.
Eve has a huge swath of Empire space that just sits there, and nothing we do has any impact on the lore-based conflicts CCP has presented. Let’s change that, and add a little bit of reality to the static spacelanes.
Sunday, April 14, 2013
Meanwhile, In Black Rise...
I had surgery a few days ago, so I missed all the fun in Enulari over the weekend. Boo!
No longer will the Caldari be using Ena for quick jumps into Nenn. Hikkoken, my favorite place to lose frigates, has no stations. In fact, no systems that the Caldari control neighboring Nennemaila have stations, so I kind of hope the squids push back and take something. So I'm fighting neutrals and lowering my sec status. I've found a few fights there recently, and I just had a fun one that makes me like Eve.
I'm in Hikkoken, running down buttons, because why the hell not? I'll take a nice pile of LP for hitting the scan button. A neutral Atron hopped into my plex (because I own it, right?). I was also in a kitey Atron, and we had a fun little dance. I wasn't quite hitting enough, but he kept letting me get out of point range. So I got out at mid structure. GFs happen, and then he says "I need to learn to fly better." I told him to not let me get out of point range. We both ran back to Nenn, and met up in the same plex in Hikkoken a few minutes later. I tried to be tricky, and loaded up some extra long-range ammo, thinking maybe he would be so focused on closing range that I could kite him just right and have a nice long point kill.
Well that failed. I lost the Atron. But damn if the little 1v1 wasn't fun. And damn if it isn't nice to see people going out on their own just looking for fights. FW has seen a lot of fleets lately, and I love them. But it's also nice to get into little scraps where two people can just shoot it out without the inevitable imbalance of the small gang dropping in. If I can't count on FW fleets to satisfy my PvP fix, I'll take the neutrals who wil.
The Atron is rapidly becoming a fun little frig to experiment with. It has almost no tank, but they cost so little to lose that I now question myself if I last for more that 15 minutes in one. Today's lasted for the better part of an hour. I'm doing this wrong.
No longer will the Caldari be using Ena for quick jumps into Nenn. Hikkoken, my favorite place to lose frigates, has no stations. In fact, no systems that the Caldari control neighboring Nennemaila have stations, so I kind of hope the squids push back and take something. So I'm fighting neutrals and lowering my sec status. I've found a few fights there recently, and I just had a fun one that makes me like Eve.
I'm in Hikkoken, running down buttons, because why the hell not? I'll take a nice pile of LP for hitting the scan button. A neutral Atron hopped into my plex (because I own it, right?). I was also in a kitey Atron, and we had a fun little dance. I wasn't quite hitting enough, but he kept letting me get out of point range. So I got out at mid structure. GFs happen, and then he says "I need to learn to fly better." I told him to not let me get out of point range. We both ran back to Nenn, and met up in the same plex in Hikkoken a few minutes later. I tried to be tricky, and loaded up some extra long-range ammo, thinking maybe he would be so focused on closing range that I could kite him just right and have a nice long point kill.
Well that failed. I lost the Atron. But damn if the little 1v1 wasn't fun. And damn if it isn't nice to see people going out on their own just looking for fights. FW has seen a lot of fleets lately, and I love them. But it's also nice to get into little scraps where two people can just shoot it out without the inevitable imbalance of the small gang dropping in. If I can't count on FW fleets to satisfy my PvP fix, I'll take the neutrals who wil.
The Atron is rapidly becoming a fun little frig to experiment with. It has almost no tank, but they cost so little to lose that I now question myself if I last for more that 15 minutes in one. Today's lasted for the better part of an hour. I'm doing this wrong.
Saturday, April 6, 2013
Double Play in a Three Way
Low sec faction warfare has a lot of wrinkles any time engagements start. An interesting twist to many fights is that allies in one moment are you foes the next. Amongst faction warfare pilots, you have those who have hit pirate status (pies) and those who either haven't by choice or those who haven't simply because it takes some time to drop your sec rating. I joined FW with a shiny 5.0. As I write this, one month in, I stand at 3.8. Yep, I've become that evil bastard that shoots the innocent. Sometimes.
Tonight we had a nice little fight that showed how all of these mechanics work. My corp had meeting to discuss various things, and then we decided the proper way to conclude business was a gate camp in Akidagi, on the Ichoriya gate. For those who are unaware, Icho is a HS Caldari system jumping into low, so it gets s moderate amount of consistent traffic from both Militias, neutrals, and pirates. It's a good place to catch those who are not taking the proper precautions when entering low sec. It's also a really nice place to catch Caldari Militia loners who don't bother checking intel.
We sat there for a while, and although we snagged a few kills it was mostly boring. Break was called, we wandered back to Nennemaila, and I emptied my hold. Then, after some slight reshipping, we started to go back. Any time a decent small gang gets together in the Gallente FW scene the process of going somewhere without a set target means a bit of scouting, baiting, and general cat and mouse tomfoolery to try and get a fight or some kills. We saw some cruisers and BCs on the Enaluri-Nenn gate, and tried to catch them. Our initial attempt lead to failure, although I think one or two guys bagged a kill. We had one pilot almost get caught out in a Tornado. I warped to follow, and we both made it through with our paint jobs nicely nicked. A third warped to the gate at 15 out, got a kill and then fell.
Upon returning to Nenn again, we noticed a nice fleet forming up, gave them the enemy composition which included Drake, Drake, Falcon, Tornado, Harbinger, Talos, and assorted cruisers and frigs. Reship again, and the fleet warps to the Enaluri gate, about 25 strong. We land to find a nice chunk of neutrals from Phoenix Co. we don't know jumping gate into the Caldari. Everyone starts landing, and the neutrals join the Federation. I've been playing with an odd long-point rail fit Incursus for fleets, and manage to nab point on the Tornado. But the trade-off between Warp Scramblers and Warp Disruptors ends with the Tornado warping off. The field is slowly clearing of Caldari as we bag the Talos and the Falcon, and sundry other ships.
Let's take a moment to reconsider the various people who fly in low sec. Due to the way aggression and security status mechanics work, some pilots are always free targets, and it is very easy to become a target as fights progress. This means your neutral allies might realize that the previously untouchable pilots in your fleet are suddenly ripe for the picking. It also means a savvy group can ignore one side of a conflict, only to turn on their erstwhile allies once a common foe is cleared from the field. Many of my corpmates left behind the safety of non-pirate status long ago, and our "friends" from Phoenix Co. took the this opportunity to try to score a few more kills.
I'm not sure how many Phoenix Co. pilots started in the engagement, but we took down three once the second phase of the fight started. Due to superior numbers and quick responses, we held the field. The results of the battle are a mess. But based on that report, we held the field with 16 kills and no losses. That might not be completely accurate, but I'll take it. My hold held the remnants of a Harbinger, and I picked up a flight or two of spare drones left on the field.
All in all, a fun little fight. Just remember that in low sec, you always need to be aware of how engagements can shift as a fight progresses.
Tuesday, April 2, 2013
Learning Logi
But that was not to be my only action on the Day of Fools! After licking my wounds, doing some *real* shit, and trying to find PvP videos to learn something from, I hopped back in game. It seemed some BC support was needed, so I quickly allocated and fit up a nice Myrm, only to learn that we were instead going for cruisers. Doh. At least I have a BC ready to fight now. Then the FC asked if anyone could fly logi. Lo and behold, I can fly any T1 logi cruiser, and I can even fly the T2 Caldari and Gallente versions. A few minutes later I was sitting in brand new Augoror with a few ideas and another Aug pilot depending on me.
Our roam starts, and we try to engage the Caldari in a few places, to no avail. I ask lots of questions on comms to try and not derp my way into a nice killmail for someone else. I finally get the basics of cap-chaining, repping and spot-boosting cap in order, just in time to jump into a TEST gang in Kedama. We did ok. Unfortunately for that fight, I had not learned the protip of assisting my drones to whore on the killmails. Cue the sad trombone. I get many thanks for being a not completely stupid logi pilot from the fleet, which was awesome. It's always nice when you help your mates kill stuff and then get some credit for helping out.
Edit: Someone else like this fight, too.
The next fight I had learned how to get a little killboard credit for shooting friendlies with concentrated armor beams. We found a bunch of squids hanging out in a plex in Hikkoken. I'm starting to really like Hikkoken. Jump gate, warp to plex, warp the gate, get bacon. Also, get on the kill mails this time to prove I'm doing something.
Finally we ended up back in Nennamaila, only to find out a large group of Tornados were making our life tough. At this point we had three Augurors. The we had two, and only because the Tornados primaried the first, then split damage on the other logi pilot and me. Internet spaceship strategery ensued, and I called it a night, saving my blooded Auggie for another fleet.
Logisitics is fun. I really enjoy it. Although it may not have the satisfaction of making things pop, I get to manage a lot of things, and I get to keep my fleet mates in their ships. It also makes the roaming part of the roam more active. Every jump and warp had a little mental checklist to go down. Lock logis, establish cap. Am I anchor? Yes, get range on the proper target, No, get orbit range on the anchor. Lock up ancillary targets in case of hostiles. Repeat. There is a bit more than just listening to comms and trying to keep up.
I've tried to play healers in other games, and found the process to be much more hostile. In WoW, everyone was expected to just know a completely different play style, and the margin for error was nil. In Eve, the fleet listened, explained, and coached.
This is an odd characteristic I have noticed with Eve players. The gaming media loves to paint us as
psychotic sociopaths who delight in the anger of others. I have found, through most of my Eve career, that even your enemies are often willing to talk if you approach them the right way. Your fleet mates often want ot actively help you get better. Maybe this spirit lies the persistent world of Eve, maybe it lies in the fact that you are fighting other people instead of mobs, but there seems to be some sense of a desire to share knowledge with others in many aspects of the game. I think we lose sight of this quite often. We have all seen the learning curve of Eve.
But what we do not see written about is the vast amount of players who want to share the game with others and help them get better. Many of us want to answer questions and help our mates learn how this whole thing works. We may fight them in a few months or a year, but we can only do that if we help people keep playing the game. So my thanks go out to the FCs and fleet mates and corpmates and even enemies I've played Eve with over the last few years. I've only gotten bored with the game when I let myself get bored. I've always found players willing to help me learn things. The more I learn, the more I enjoy the game, and the more I realize how much more there is to learn in Eve.
A special shout out to Kirith Kodachi. I've greatly enjoyed reading his blog, and tonight I got to fly with him. Even though he was apparently too busy shooting things to broadcast for reps. You are lucky I had you on the watchlist, Kirith! Name recognition has benefits in some cases. Kidding aside, he helped us get some intel on the second fight, and helped make it happen.
A final note, this is the 100th published post here at Warp to Zero, which may be why I'm in a reflective mood. I never thought I would get this far in blogging about internet spaceships. In the next few days, I'm thinking of writing up a retrospective on my time in Eve so far. I planned to do that for the 100th post, but the logi experience almost seems more fitting. Regardless, thanks to everyone who keeps coming to read my ramblings. I doubt I would have kept writing if no one had bothered to come. Thanks especially to the sites who have linked me, and the readers who take the time to post comments. It is often said that Eve isn't that great of a game, but the community keeps people coming back. I know that is true for me.
Thursday, March 28, 2013
The Battle of Hikkoken
Fweddit came to Hikkoken tonight.
Word came in that the Amarr Militia wanted to come over and fight. I guess they needed a break from getting shoved around by the Minmatar? However you look at it, they made it known when they wanted a fight, and we started preparing. But not well enough.
We got about 30 pilots together, and sent out scouts. Much bouncing through systems and plexes ensued. As the Golden Glob was approaching one jump out, we learned they had significantly more numbers and organizations that we did. 10 logis, and another 50 or so cruisers. We had about 5 logi and 20 cruisers with some frigates for fun. A frantic align and warp got us out of Pyn and back into Nennemaila, and reshipping began. ECM was added, the call was sent out, and we eventually got up to around 60 people. Fweddit was nice enough to wait next door while we tried to make the fight more interesting.
After a bit too long a wait for some tastes, we undocked and flew to Hikkoken. The dirty slavers had taken up residency in the Medium plex of the Cadlari pig-dogs, and we warped on in to have at them! It started out nicely, but over time the greater logi support of Fweddit and their tighter organization began to win out. Our target calling started well but broke down part way through the fight. A few mistakes left our fleet a bit scattered on the field, and we reached the point where our DPS could not break the Fweddit reps. Even though we could reship next door, the visiting team won the day. To make matters worse, someone had the bright idea to put an fast locking Thrasher on the Nenn staition, and a few of us got podded while trying to reship. Fweddit also had some ships that seemed to be dedicated to podding us out of the fight. After my second cruiser went, I found myself in Athinard instead of Nenn, and that was it for the night.
A few lessons:
Word came in that the Amarr Militia wanted to come over and fight. I guess they needed a break from getting shoved around by the Minmatar? However you look at it, they made it known when they wanted a fight, and we started preparing. But not well enough.
We got about 30 pilots together, and sent out scouts. Much bouncing through systems and plexes ensued. As the Golden Glob was approaching one jump out, we learned they had significantly more numbers and organizations that we did. 10 logis, and another 50 or so cruisers. We had about 5 logi and 20 cruisers with some frigates for fun. A frantic align and warp got us out of Pyn and back into Nennemaila, and reshipping began. ECM was added, the call was sent out, and we eventually got up to around 60 people. Fweddit was nice enough to wait next door while we tried to make the fight more interesting.
After a bit too long a wait for some tastes, we undocked and flew to Hikkoken. The dirty slavers had taken up residency in the Medium plex of the Cadlari pig-dogs, and we warped on in to have at them! It started out nicely, but over time the greater logi support of Fweddit and their tighter organization began to win out. Our target calling started well but broke down part way through the fight. A few mistakes left our fleet a bit scattered on the field, and we reached the point where our DPS could not break the Fweddit reps. Even though we could reship next door, the visiting team won the day. To make matters worse, someone had the bright idea to put an fast locking Thrasher on the Nenn staition, and a few of us got podded while trying to reship. Fweddit also had some ships that seemed to be dedicated to podding us out of the fight. After my second cruiser went, I found myself in Athinard instead of Nenn, and that was it for the night.
A few lessons:
- Fweddit was nice enough to let us even up the odds, but that's not the norm.
- Signal calling is very important. Both in this fight and a previous spat today, slow and/or confused target calling had an impact on the fight as a whole.
- Keeping your fleet in a decent place for reps and targets is also key. Getting ships strung out over 80km of space makes reps hard to manage.
- Fleet doctrines and organization can make a huge difference.
Wednesday, March 27, 2013
A Week in Black Rise
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| We always hurt the ones we love... |
warfare pilot. Right? Guys? Oh well...
I'm a week in to FW, and after missing fleets most of said week, I finally got in on some fun action tonight. By fun, I mean I managed lie, cheat, point, and whore my way into some 17 kills, give or take, tonight, including my first solo killmail ever. On a Condor that I'm pretty sure didn't know I was shooting him. So that was awesome.
But the most interesting part of the evening wasn't my first solo kill during a fleet fight. It was a particular Vexor gang that found out what happens when you linger too long in one place. A mixed group of Fidelas Constans came for spin through Black Rise and got pincered between at least two Galente FW fleets and a whole bunch of folks who showed up. It started out Innocently enough. Chatter had been coming in about some FCON Vexor fleet that was tooling around in Enaluri and thereabouts. This was met with mixed thoughts on my part, as the CFC has been sending some large battleship fleets through Black Rise, and foolhardy as I am, a lone Incursus is ill-suited to taking on a wing of much larger ships.
The fleet I was in was torn. We had been chasing a group of Squids around for a while to varying degrees of success, and weren't sure if it was worth sending our small mixed frigate and shiny fleet up against the Vexors, which were known to be in the double digits. Impatience and word of another FDU fleet stalking the FCONs pushed us over the edge in the end.
We jumped into Enulari, got a terrible warp in, and ended up burning towards a mixed FW fleet duking it out with the FCONs. After much slowboating and warping in and out, the dust had settled, and the intoxicant-fueled Gallente fleets sorting out the wrecks hovering over the Enulari star. Villore Accords, Monkeys with Guns., Sicarius Draconis, and a lot of unaffiliated FDU celebrated the accidentally-on-purpose death of a bunch of misappropriated Vexors. I blame it on the Omen and Auguror FCONS brought. We can deal with seeing Squid ships, but adding the Amarr to the mix with all those obviously stolen Vexors was an act too far to let even Squid hunting get in the way of. They even had the temerity to bring a flight of purloined Thrashers!
We then celebrated with some low key gate camps that1 were wonderfully successful2.
I'm still failing at the very-small scale fights, but I'm starting to learn things, and not take all the damage in my face. I'm starting to look at fits and understand some of the considerations that go into them. Mostly, I'm learning to love the impromptu nature of FW roams, and the joyous risks taken in the name of finding things to shoot.
1 This wasn't even part of the camp, just stupid luck and fast responses by our fleet, which was docking at the time.↩
2 Nothing besides the cloak? Really?↩
Friday, March 22, 2013
Luminotgonnahappen
I tried to go to Luminaire today, but alas, it was not to be. A fleet of us got together, sorted out logistics, spooked some camps along the way from FW LS to Dodixie, and then we watched the Live Feed of the Luminaire event. Once the Leviathan was at about 30% shield, we said screw waiting, let's go. We had been holding back to see if the null sec fleets would pound each other down, but that was not to be.
We got to the Pettinck-Luminaire gate at were locked out. For a while. While watching hundreds of ships orbit a gate on the lowest graphical settings was a new experience for me, it was less than enthralling. I honestly had more fun playing cat and mouse to move some Caldari gatecamps out of the way earlier. We were making the route safe for some of our lowsec pilots to rally up.
As I was sitting at the gate, idly punching the jump button to see the error message, the gate briefly unlocked, and I was pulled through all by my lonesome. My Myrmidon was immediately, although languidly, target, scrammed and popped by the fine members of various branches of the Goonswarm. TiDi gave me a wonderful slow motion experience. On the plus side I got my pod out. Yeah, those Navy Cap Boosters were from the active tanked fit that I dropped for plates to use with our logi. Who were having a grand old time on the other side of the gate.
I warped off, and a very odd thing happened. Because I had somehow accrued the combat timer that prevents jumping, even though I was targeted and fired upon first (someone tell me what I don't understand about aggression mechanics, please!), I had to bounce around Luminaire in TiDi for a few minutes before trying to escape. My pod, while in warp, told me I was being warp scrambled, and I was taking pod damage. So I picked another celestial and started spamming the warp button. In a very odd collection of moments, I went from being scrammed while in warp to being scrammed while in warp in a completely different direction. I don't even know how this is possible. If I am warping, I'm not targetable, or scrammable, I think. Much less able to take damage. But all these things occurred at the same time!
I got out. I went back to Dodixie.
So overall, the whole Luminaire event was a bust for me. No chance to see the Leviathan, although I was watching the feed. I heard it went down. Cool beans, but what else would happen? It is Gallente space, after all. The whole experience left me wondering about a few things:
Eve's interface for large scale events is terrible. The hostiles I tried to target and interact with on the Luminaire Gate were so lost in the overview that the ships popped or warped before I could do anything.
On the Luminaire side, the gate camp was a clusterfuck, in multiple ways :). I knew I would lose the Myrm, and that's fine. I just had no chance to really respond to anything. It took getting halfway through armor before I could lock or launch drones or fire. I also incurred the aggressor tag somehow, even though I was locked, scrammed, TP'd and taking damage before I locked anyone. I probably don't understand aggression in Eve well enough at this point, but it seems silly.
The overview really can't handle large events, either. I have a few tabs set up just to sort friendlies, hostiles, war targets, etc. It was still useless today. The pod-saver tab worked, only because it has nothing in it save for planets, gates, and the sun.
From a player participation side, the system locks and lag and TiDi kind of ruined the whole experience. Great kudos to CCP for doing this event. I love the idea, I anticipated the hell out of it. They publicized it, the community got behind it. But in execution it pretty much fell flat. The rest of my fleet never jumped through, and eventually turned around to regroup and head back to Low Sec.
Maybe next time, CCP should look at spreading such events out. Make various fleets have to choose from a number of systems to engage in. This would make the whole thing less node-intensive, and reduce the player counts in each system. With one spot where everyone wants to go, the infrastructure ground to halt, and the larger blocs got to run much of the show. Even more people were just stuck sitting at gates.
Overall, I'm glad the event happened, but I was hoping to play some role besides killmail fodder. Cheers to anyone who got in and took part!
We got to the Pettinck-Luminaire gate at were locked out. For a while. While watching hundreds of ships orbit a gate on the lowest graphical settings was a new experience for me, it was less than enthralling. I honestly had more fun playing cat and mouse to move some Caldari gatecamps out of the way earlier. We were making the route safe for some of our lowsec pilots to rally up.
As I was sitting at the gate, idly punching the jump button to see the error message, the gate briefly unlocked, and I was pulled through all by my lonesome. My Myrmidon was immediately, although languidly, target, scrammed and popped by the fine members of various branches of the Goonswarm. TiDi gave me a wonderful slow motion experience. On the plus side I got my pod out. Yeah, those Navy Cap Boosters were from the active tanked fit that I dropped for plates to use with our logi. Who were having a grand old time on the other side of the gate.
I warped off, and a very odd thing happened. Because I had somehow accrued the combat timer that prevents jumping, even though I was targeted and fired upon first (someone tell me what I don't understand about aggression mechanics, please!), I had to bounce around Luminaire in TiDi for a few minutes before trying to escape. My pod, while in warp, told me I was being warp scrambled, and I was taking pod damage. So I picked another celestial and started spamming the warp button. In a very odd collection of moments, I went from being scrammed while in warp to being scrammed while in warp in a completely different direction. I don't even know how this is possible. If I am warping, I'm not targetable, or scrammable, I think. Much less able to take damage. But all these things occurred at the same time!
I got out. I went back to Dodixie.
So overall, the whole Luminaire event was a bust for me. No chance to see the Leviathan, although I was watching the feed. I heard it went down. Cool beans, but what else would happen? It is Gallente space, after all. The whole experience left me wondering about a few things:
Eve's interface for large scale events is terrible. The hostiles I tried to target and interact with on the Luminaire Gate were so lost in the overview that the ships popped or warped before I could do anything.
On the Luminaire side, the gate camp was a clusterfuck, in multiple ways :). I knew I would lose the Myrm, and that's fine. I just had no chance to really respond to anything. It took getting halfway through armor before I could lock or launch drones or fire. I also incurred the aggressor tag somehow, even though I was locked, scrammed, TP'd and taking damage before I locked anyone. I probably don't understand aggression in Eve well enough at this point, but it seems silly.
The overview really can't handle large events, either. I have a few tabs set up just to sort friendlies, hostiles, war targets, etc. It was still useless today. The pod-saver tab worked, only because it has nothing in it save for planets, gates, and the sun.
From a player participation side, the system locks and lag and TiDi kind of ruined the whole experience. Great kudos to CCP for doing this event. I love the idea, I anticipated the hell out of it. They publicized it, the community got behind it. But in execution it pretty much fell flat. The rest of my fleet never jumped through, and eventually turned around to regroup and head back to Low Sec.
Maybe next time, CCP should look at spreading such events out. Make various fleets have to choose from a number of systems to engage in. This would make the whole thing less node-intensive, and reduce the player counts in each system. With one spot where everyone wants to go, the infrastructure ground to halt, and the larger blocs got to run much of the show. Even more people were just stuck sitting at gates.
Overall, I'm glad the event happened, but I was hoping to play some role besides killmail fodder. Cheers to anyone who got in and took part!
Wednesday, March 20, 2013
Tackling Tempests and Trailing Tengus
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| Close only counts... |
Tricky Tengus
Operations commence with the fleet holding on gate outside the Tama system, home to our pair of would-be kills. They don't appear to notice anything aside from one fleet member warping through system. We get cloaked eyes into the mission room. Then it comes to light that the Tengus have a Buzzard hanging out off-gate watching traffic. This doesn't seem to be a problem, as we just need to sidle our tackle in and then once point is accomplished, the Buzzard is irrelevant.
Then a fleet mate jumps the gate. The Tengus spook and dock up. Good game. The moral of this story the importance of fleet discipline. We were just about ready to get our tackle in on the targets, from another gate that the Buzzard couldn't see. One nervous jump ruined the planning, and the glorious killmail we might have scored. My killboard efficiency would have skyrocketed!
2 v 1... then 2... then 3... then None.
5 or 6 of us are holding at a small outpost, after clearing out the pesky squids that had been hanging out there. A second outpost had a few hostiles. In a sane world, the gang would align as a unit and warp in, grabbing points and taking targets out while FC calls them. Eve is not a sane world. I was unsure what was going on. A hesitant newb, I was holding on the plex while one, then two, then three members warped off in staccato fashion. I was waiting for the FC to give the go ahead. He realized what was happening, and simply said "Ok, how many people still have ships in local?" Turns out we were down three ships, with nothing to show.
We had more force, more ships, but not better timing. Again, discipline was the key missing factor between feeding a choppy line of kills to the foe and clearing the field. I blame the ease with which we had mopped the previous complex. That nice high of dropping your gang on a target and managing the field carried over into overconfidence and sloppy execution.
Twin Tempests
The frigate roam continues! We spot two Tempests chilling at the gate to a complex. We manage to hold discipline, warp in, land tackles, and most of us orbit under the Tempest guns. I'm in a long-point Atron, so my job is mostly holding one of the Tempests. Things are going fine until they go pear shaped. Drones come out and start taking a toll. A few frigs are orbiting too far out, and are taking fire from the 800mm shells the Tempests are raining upon us. Eventually I realize I have a stack of drones chipping away at my armor at alarming speed. I burn out, as things are falling apart. I manage to make it out of scram range in deep structure and warp out. The Tempests hold the field, with one nearly out of hull.
A few things went wrong. A few frigs managed to orbit into those 800mm shells. I failed to focus on the drones soon enough to mitigate the incoming damage. This fight was far from a given on either side. Had we downed one of the battleships while losing our hulls, it would have been a victory, but we came up just short. Perhaps I should have kept my blasters on the Tempest, and perhaps I should have targeted drones sooner. Both would have eliminated half of the incoming damage or more. This was a better managed fight, but still eluded us.
***
I had some victories today as well, a few kills that padded my efficiency. I got part of a kill in my first pirate act in Eve. A fellow militia mate and I fell to an obvious mismatch out of stubborn anger and honor. It was a good day overall. I look forward to the next.
Monday, March 18, 2013
Another Day, Another Incursus
After that, I tried to fleet up for a while which was a mixed bag. No offense to non-American english speakers, but system names and abbreviations are giving me a headache, at least for now. I'm over in Nennamaila most of the time, looking for fights, and the weird adjacent systems seems to be french in origin, and whatever the heck Caldari names are based on. And I now know what OMS means.
But about fleets. I joined the rolling Gallente Militia fleet a few times today, with very little to show for it except an unfortunate Tusker who warped into a plex not realizing we had about 13 cruisers and frigs waiting. That stabber didn't take long to go down, and we obliged his goal of finding a way to rid himself of a hull. I almost didn't make it on the kill it happened so fast. Aside from that, I missed the few larger fights, and am starting to see the odd dance in FW fleet combat. No one wants to get rolled, so any time a larger fleet rounds itself up and goes out for a stroll, it seems like the skies are empty. Makes sense.
I also missed out on a few fights due to poor positioning and timing. Such as a group of Ruptures landing on Nenn station. I docked up, in my solo Incursus, only to undock in time to see one of our pilots in an Archon, mopping up 30km off station and plenty of friendlies plinking away. I just couldn't burn out fast enough to engage.
Saturday, March 16, 2013
Warring with the Factions
A few nights ago I had my first foray into faction warfare. I spent a few days moving ships and assets out of Caldari space to new high sec mothball hangar in Gallente space, bought and contracted a bunch of ships to my new low sec home, and while waiting for the bulk of my supplies to arrive, I hopped into a few ships and took the not-so friendly stars of Black Rise.
The first thing that happened was this. I warped around Nennamaila for a while and ended up in a small complex, I think that's what it was, and starting orbiting the structure with a timer. That seemed like the logical thing to do, right? Shortly thereafter, my new friend warped in. He had an Atron, I had a Incursus, I figured why not? Cut to a rather long chase, with me cycling between webs and reps, struggling to keep the Atron in range after my poor drone had turned to space dust. I'd gotten him to structure, and had a solid scram on him, but this was taking forever! My Gallente militia mate happend into the room at that point, and a few more shots from his Condor tipped the tide. Queue me saying "First PVP kill EVAR!" in local, gfs all around, and a sense of accomplishment.
Then we come to this. A pile of hostiles pop into local, but not militia war targets. Ok, I'll keep orbiting my button. Probably some people passing through, as had been going on all night. I see a warning in local from a militia mate, then TEST said hello. I get a little overwhelmed, and fail to warp out fast enough because I'm a nub with poor combat navigation skills, lose the poor Incursus (She was so damn happy after that last fight!), then lose my pod. Good news: I just created a new clone, and put in much cheaper implants. Bad news: I need to redefine cheap, and I learned my medical clone's home was in Caldari space. Good call, me. A ship worth 10m isk, implants worth about 46m, and my clone itself, which is now worth about 43m. Yeouch. I need to learn not to lose my pod!
And last, I can't post, because the KM was never put up on the boards, but I lost an Algos to two Harpies because of stupid. I thought the Condor with me was warping in, saw the "Don't" in local, realized I had no point to keep the Harpies off me and let those sexy drones do damage, and poof. Got my pod out this time though! Most of this I realized in hindsight. The lesson is always make sure your fellow pilots are planning on engaging. After that I was out of ships and adrenaline for the night, although it seems my hero antics proceeded to escalate a small brawl that had the good fights going all around local a few minutes later. So I'll take that as a victory, and stop flying destroyers for a while.
All in all, a very fun night. I just waiting on the rest of my ships to get in, and then MOAR FIGHTINGS!
PS - Shoutout to Alamar Caledane, for being all friendly my first night out. And the title of the blog, he helpfully told me, will get me killed. Yep. That's the joke, if you didn't get it.
The first thing that happened was this. I warped around Nennamaila for a while and ended up in a small complex, I think that's what it was, and starting orbiting the structure with a timer. That seemed like the logical thing to do, right? Shortly thereafter, my new friend warped in. He had an Atron, I had a Incursus, I figured why not? Cut to a rather long chase, with me cycling between webs and reps, struggling to keep the Atron in range after my poor drone had turned to space dust. I'd gotten him to structure, and had a solid scram on him, but this was taking forever! My Gallente militia mate happend into the room at that point, and a few more shots from his Condor tipped the tide. Queue me saying "First PVP kill EVAR!" in local, gfs all around, and a sense of accomplishment.
 |
| "I found a target! Oh, never mind, I'll be back once I find a new ship..." |
Then we come to this. A pile of hostiles pop into local, but not militia war targets. Ok, I'll keep orbiting my button. Probably some people passing through, as had been going on all night. I see a warning in local from a militia mate, then TEST said hello. I get a little overwhelmed, and fail to warp out fast enough because I'm a nub with poor combat navigation skills, lose the poor Incursus (She was so damn happy after that last fight!), then lose my pod. Good news: I just created a new clone, and put in much cheaper implants. Bad news: I need to redefine cheap, and I learned my medical clone's home was in Caldari space. Good call, me. A ship worth 10m isk, implants worth about 46m, and my clone itself, which is now worth about 43m. Yeouch. I need to learn not to lose my pod!
And last, I can't post, because the KM was never put up on the boards, but I lost an Algos to two Harpies because of stupid. I thought the Condor with me was warping in, saw the "Don't" in local, realized I had no point to keep the Harpies off me and let those sexy drones do damage, and poof. Got my pod out this time though! Most of this I realized in hindsight. The lesson is always make sure your fellow pilots are planning on engaging. After that I was out of ships and adrenaline for the night, although it seems my hero antics proceeded to escalate a small brawl that had the good fights going all around local a few minutes later. So I'll take that as a victory, and stop flying destroyers for a while.
All in all, a very fun night. I just waiting on the rest of my ships to get in, and then MOAR FIGHTINGS!
PS - Shoutout to Alamar Caledane, for being all friendly my first night out. And the title of the blog, he helpfully told me, will get me killed. Yep. That's the joke, if you didn't get it.
Thursday, March 7, 2013
Objects in Space
Note: This is old material, sitting in my draft bin for a long period of time. The links are also to the old articles that got me thinking.
Why should ships log off when players log off? This has always interested me in Eve. My understanding of the current mechanic is that, aside from timers, if you log off while in space, you go into a "warp stasis", where your ship is apparently in a pocket dimension that you mysteriously come back from when you log back in. From a technical standpoint, I can sort of understand this. There are already enough objects in space on the server. But perhaps if you log off while in space, your ship should stay where you left it?
This would fit with the ideas behind stations and POSes. Stations are where you go to get out of your ship, get other ships, trade, and so on. Stattions are also the only almost completely safe space in Eve. No one can blow up your ship while it's docked. In space where stations do not exist, POSes fulfill this role with hangars and force fields. Would anyone leave a valuable ship sitting in a WH outside the POS shields?
From a PvP perspective, this would make all sorts of logging strategies effectively worthless, unless you felt safe leaving a ship at deep safes and assuming no one would come find you. It would eliminate the idea of invisible campers in WH space, assuming the residents actually took the time to use combat probes. It would also require gate campers to actually show their presence in space instead of hiding in the warp stasis bubble.
As for what happens to a logged out ship floating in space, there are options. I imagine the status of the ship would be to continue running whatever modules were active when you logged. So many ships would eventually cap out, then drift once recharged. The biggest problem I see is the problem of what happens to your velocity. It would cause problems to have ships just... fly forever. So maybe you program autopilot AI that says if a plaer is logged out for X minutes, the ship finds the nearest celestial and warps to it. You could even give people the option of what celestial, or station, and what distance to choose, and if docking is completed. You'd probably need a default of 1000km from the nearest planet if none of the player options are available to deal with station docking rights and WHs, but there could be a system.
All of this is to say that the whole log off in space mechanic in Eve seems to be a throwback to computing limitations. In many ways, the log of mechanics still provide some rather big bugbears. Gate camps and WH squatters come to mind. Would it hurt to have objects in space become a little more persistent?
Why should ships log off when players log off? This has always interested me in Eve. My understanding of the current mechanic is that, aside from timers, if you log off while in space, you go into a "warp stasis", where your ship is apparently in a pocket dimension that you mysteriously come back from when you log back in. From a technical standpoint, I can sort of understand this. There are already enough objects in space on the server. But perhaps if you log off while in space, your ship should stay where you left it?
This would fit with the ideas behind stations and POSes. Stations are where you go to get out of your ship, get other ships, trade, and so on. Stattions are also the only almost completely safe space in Eve. No one can blow up your ship while it's docked. In space where stations do not exist, POSes fulfill this role with hangars and force fields. Would anyone leave a valuable ship sitting in a WH outside the POS shields?
From a PvP perspective, this would make all sorts of logging strategies effectively worthless, unless you felt safe leaving a ship at deep safes and assuming no one would come find you. It would eliminate the idea of invisible campers in WH space, assuming the residents actually took the time to use combat probes. It would also require gate campers to actually show their presence in space instead of hiding in the warp stasis bubble.
As for what happens to a logged out ship floating in space, there are options. I imagine the status of the ship would be to continue running whatever modules were active when you logged. So many ships would eventually cap out, then drift once recharged. The biggest problem I see is the problem of what happens to your velocity. It would cause problems to have ships just... fly forever. So maybe you program autopilot AI that says if a plaer is logged out for X minutes, the ship finds the nearest celestial and warps to it. You could even give people the option of what celestial, or station, and what distance to choose, and if docking is completed. You'd probably need a default of 1000km from the nearest planet if none of the player options are available to deal with station docking rights and WHs, but there could be a system.
All of this is to say that the whole log off in space mechanic in Eve seems to be a throwback to computing limitations. In many ways, the log of mechanics still provide some rather big bugbears. Gate camps and WH squatters come to mind. Would it hurt to have objects in space become a little more persistent?
Sunday, May 20, 2012
Adding Weight to Wars
After reading a lot of post about wardec changes, and thinking about the new v the old systems, and then digging into my own thoughts, I keep finding myself asking: What is the point of War Declarations in High Sec?
At the core, a war dec allows Corp A to pay a penalty (isk), and in exchange Corp A gets a free pass to kill anyone in Corp B for a period of time. Simple enough, you are paying to suspend the normal rules of the game. But what is the point of this suspension of rules? It is clear for Corp A, if ship destruction and loot, or the more esoteric value of tears are considered valuable. Corp B gains very little. A change to learn how to harden up, possibly get some kills or loot, or a chance to sit in a station for a week to hopefully bore the attackers into not paying for more rule suspension. Oddly imbalanced no matter how you look at it. And if you have made it this far, I promise there is an actual point to MY ramblings on this topic.
What is missing in this whole equation of war decs is meaning. Corp A and Corp B will gain two things out of the conflict: Killboard info and maybe isk. This seems like a poor trade for disruption of the rules. I think there should be more at stake for both sides. Defenders should have a reward for actually defending. Attackers should have a reward for succeeding. You could play with this in a lot of ways. Kills could reward LP or Standings. A loss (for either side) could result in station rights or office access changes. Wardecs could become a tool to bring Faction Warfare into High Sec in a very limited way. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but it seems odd that wardecs are allowed by the Empire factions if they do nothing but act as an isk sink.
And this could go deeper into how Corporations work. Perhaps if you found a corp, your office and HQ locations become de facto Faction indicators. So if you HQ Fancy Pony Bros in Rens, you are a de facto Minmatar corp, and can only be wardecced by non Gallente or Minmatar corps. Low sec HQs would be unaligned, or choose a FW group to affiliate with. Null corps would obviously be outside the purview of faction standing. A huge portion of Eve's fiction and story is tied to the interplay between Empire and Pirate factions.
This is obviously a half-baked set of thoughts, but I think wars need more meaning to make them matter beyond how they hit player wallets. Let's make player corporations a part of the larger story of Eve. Let's make wars matter when moons are not being fought over.
Flame away!
At the core, a war dec allows Corp A to pay a penalty (isk), and in exchange Corp A gets a free pass to kill anyone in Corp B for a period of time. Simple enough, you are paying to suspend the normal rules of the game. But what is the point of this suspension of rules? It is clear for Corp A, if ship destruction and loot, or the more esoteric value of tears are considered valuable. Corp B gains very little. A change to learn how to harden up, possibly get some kills or loot, or a chance to sit in a station for a week to hopefully bore the attackers into not paying for more rule suspension. Oddly imbalanced no matter how you look at it. And if you have made it this far, I promise there is an actual point to MY ramblings on this topic.
What is missing in this whole equation of war decs is meaning. Corp A and Corp B will gain two things out of the conflict: Killboard info and maybe isk. This seems like a poor trade for disruption of the rules. I think there should be more at stake for both sides. Defenders should have a reward for actually defending. Attackers should have a reward for succeeding. You could play with this in a lot of ways. Kills could reward LP or Standings. A loss (for either side) could result in station rights or office access changes. Wardecs could become a tool to bring Faction Warfare into High Sec in a very limited way. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but it seems odd that wardecs are allowed by the Empire factions if they do nothing but act as an isk sink.
And this could go deeper into how Corporations work. Perhaps if you found a corp, your office and HQ locations become de facto Faction indicators. So if you HQ Fancy Pony Bros in Rens, you are a de facto Minmatar corp, and can only be wardecced by non Gallente or Minmatar corps. Low sec HQs would be unaligned, or choose a FW group to affiliate with. Null corps would obviously be outside the purview of faction standing. A huge portion of Eve's fiction and story is tied to the interplay between Empire and Pirate factions.
This is obviously a half-baked set of thoughts, but I think wars need more meaning to make them matter beyond how they hit player wallets. Let's make player corporations a part of the larger story of Eve. Let's make wars matter when moons are not being fought over.
Flame away!
Wednesday, April 4, 2012
Jita Blog Talk
MOre than a few people have been talking lately about the upcoming Jitahellcamp. Ripard Teg thinks CCP have their collective backs to the wall. Syncaine is musing on the urban planning challenges of holding all the tears that will come and the health ramifications of drinking said tears. Poetic seems to have not really noticed, with his latest adventures in a stream-of-consciousness pile of posts. I;m sure you can find some others to read too.
I talked about this in regards to the philosophical context of the conflict that is coming. But what about the day to day? Here are some thoughts and predictions.
I cannot wait for the Jitahellcamp to come, and I think it will be a wonderful moment for Eve. So I am a bit more Syncaine than Ripard. There are also some long-term implications if the Gooswarm wins the field.
The economy of Eve may finally have to split up and the players will realize one mega-hub is a terrible way to run the economy. The only reason attacking Jita matters is because it is THE hub of the game. Sure, other empire hubs exist, but they do not hold a candle to the volume that is Jita IV. If trade is significantly disrupted, that makes a strong argument for spreading out a bit, which in turn opens up greater options for buyers, sellers, traders, and just about anyone interested in a more dynamic market geography.
Get ready to profit! I think there is a good chance many traders will ignore the warnings, or don't pay enough attention to the metagame. If the camp is successful and shuts down trade into and out of Jita there will be a lot of opportunity to make some isk on the edges. Not to mention the stockpiles in Jita being temporarily removed from market circulation. I leave it to you to decide what is going to be valuable, but you may want to make preparations.
Buy your stuff now. If you think you might need anything in the week or two after the 24th, you may want to get those supplies before supply chains and trade convoys are disrupted.
Put your bibs on, because there just might be an all you eat buffet of non-Eve players writing, blogging, and generally mucking about in and around New Eden. I cannot wait to see how Massively tries to spin the hellcamp. Be prepared for the sound of a thousand voices screaming, followed by... more screaming. As Syncaine and Ripard said, the forums and blogs will be awash with lots of people complaining about the GSF and CFC. Although this is rather the norm, I think the volume will go up to eleven. Time for a wonderful chance to simply observe people in Eve responding to actual content. People say they want more, but often regret getting what they want.
Is CCP reinforcing nodes, and will Jita get TiDi-ed in the days leading up to the jitahellcamp? I can see a lot of pilots getting a fresh clone and a few ships to enjoy the pretty colors when hundreds (thousands?) of Tornados, tacklers, Orcas, freighters, pods and god knows what else shows up in Jita. I know I'm thinking of trying to get good seats, and maybe onto a few killmails. You might want to set up some safes now though, for all the good it might do. If I go or not, this promises to be an interesting few days.
I talked about this in regards to the philosophical context of the conflict that is coming. But what about the day to day? Here are some thoughts and predictions.
I cannot wait for the Jitahellcamp to come, and I think it will be a wonderful moment for Eve. So I am a bit more Syncaine than Ripard. There are also some long-term implications if the Gooswarm wins the field.
The economy of Eve may finally have to split up and the players will realize one mega-hub is a terrible way to run the economy. The only reason attacking Jita matters is because it is THE hub of the game. Sure, other empire hubs exist, but they do not hold a candle to the volume that is Jita IV. If trade is significantly disrupted, that makes a strong argument for spreading out a bit, which in turn opens up greater options for buyers, sellers, traders, and just about anyone interested in a more dynamic market geography.
Get ready to profit! I think there is a good chance many traders will ignore the warnings, or don't pay enough attention to the metagame. If the camp is successful and shuts down trade into and out of Jita there will be a lot of opportunity to make some isk on the edges. Not to mention the stockpiles in Jita being temporarily removed from market circulation. I leave it to you to decide what is going to be valuable, but you may want to make preparations.
Buy your stuff now. If you think you might need anything in the week or two after the 24th, you may want to get those supplies before supply chains and trade convoys are disrupted.
Put your bibs on, because there just might be an all you eat buffet of non-Eve players writing, blogging, and generally mucking about in and around New Eden. I cannot wait to see how Massively tries to spin the hellcamp. Be prepared for the sound of a thousand voices screaming, followed by... more screaming. As Syncaine and Ripard said, the forums and blogs will be awash with lots of people complaining about the GSF and CFC. Although this is rather the norm, I think the volume will go up to eleven. Time for a wonderful chance to simply observe people in Eve responding to actual content. People say they want more, but often regret getting what they want.
Is CCP reinforcing nodes, and will Jita get TiDi-ed in the days leading up to the jitahellcamp? I can see a lot of pilots getting a fresh clone and a few ships to enjoy the pretty colors when hundreds (thousands?) of Tornados, tacklers, Orcas, freighters, pods and god knows what else shows up in Jita. I know I'm thinking of trying to get good seats, and maybe onto a few killmails. You might want to set up some safes now though, for all the good it might do. If I go or not, this promises to be an interesting few days.
Monday, April 2, 2012
Stealthy Bombers
Hanging in corp the other day I was asked if I wanted to practice some PvP tactics. Being ever the eager nub, I agreed. Twenty minutes and a few frustrating warps to get modules later, I was in a Manticore, practicing bombing runs. The first attempt ended rather poorly, with my shields empty and my corpmate saying "See that red bar? That means I killed you."
A few tries later I had the basic strategy down, no target lock from the enemy, but as I was one Manticore and he was in a Battlecruiser, and a passive regen stalemate ensued. Then my shields dropped by 50%. What the hell? Let's just say I have a newfound respect for many of the lesser used items in Eve, and I learned a lot about trying to hunt down foes in a stealthy piece of aluminum.
Here are some takeaways for players new to the SB:
A few tries later I had the basic strategy down, no target lock from the enemy, but as I was one Manticore and he was in a Battlecruiser, and a passive regen stalemate ensued. Then my shields dropped by 50%. What the hell? Let's just say I have a newfound respect for many of the lesser used items in Eve, and I learned a lot about trying to hunt down foes in a stealthy piece of aluminum.
Here are some takeaways for players new to the SB:
- Patience. Lots of it. They can't see you until you decide to drop cloak, and that is hugely important.
- Understand the range of ALL your modules, and the modules your opponent is likely to fit. If you burn in like a nub, all the range dampening in the world won't make a difference.
- Find some friends. Torpedos seem powerful, but your opponent may have more tank than one SB can handle. Without tackle, not much will stop your prey from leaving with some new intel.
- More patience. They don't know you are there, and may warp off for some random reason right as you are getting ready to decloak and open the Tubes of Hell.
- The ship you are fighting may not be fit the way you would fit it. There are a tremendous number of mods in the game, and just because you don't know or use something, your opponent may have a nasty trick or two hidden in that juicy hull you want to pop.
Thursday, March 22, 2012
Tripping in Rifters
I put a frigate pilot in RvB recently, and this was a good choice. A few highlights of the whole RvB experience:
- People tend to pay attention to comms and be somewhat focused. This is a great change of pace from some small groups I have previously flown through hostile space with.
- The PvP ON button. As long as I get on between lunch and midnight (US TZ), there is usually a 30-40 man fleet cruising around, looking to find the other fleet and make some fun happen.
- Cheap ships are fun. I fly T1 fit Rifters, because if I loot one wreck every few fights, I pay for all the ships I lose and then some without really trying.
- RvB communication. They tend to try and balance fleets against each other to make the fights at least interesting. This is not to say there is not some blobbing, or stragglers caught out, but it is generally attempted to make things fair-ish.
- 89-9 kill ratio, at this point, with 99.5% efficiency. That's just sick, and more indicative of how the other fleets call primaries as compared to my skills in a Rifter. And the fact that my Rifters cost about 500k right now...
Some not-so-highlights:
- Modules being bought out/not stocked. I dare say some budding industrialist could set up shop in Hageken, Ako and Autaris and make a killing supplying just about any module regularly used in PvP. It's awkward trying to fit ships in a permanent warzone that is not conducive to cheap indy ships.
- Complaints about hulls being used. Both sides do it, but the corp I am not in seems to love moaning after seeing someone undock in a 'Cane.
- The overview. This is my first real experience of fleet-sized engagements, and the overview is rather painful, and I know understand the challenge of trying to find that damn Maller in a group of 30 flashy reds.
But overall, putting an alt in RvB has been phenomenally fun and a great way to learn a little bit about PvP. You should try it.
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